Great and Abominable Church

[Sariah_Gift]

A lot of missionaries I've met say it refers to a specific Church but then I heard the opposite. What is your position, who is this great and abominable church??

[AlaskanLDS]

We just discussed this in Gospel Doctrine today.  From Brother Beardall's site he had the following:

The Church has not officially identified any specific organization as the great and abominable church. Therefore, any conclusions about specific organizations remain our private views and cannot be taught as Church doctrine. "The great and abominable church is a symbol of apostasy in all its forms. It is a representation of all false doctrine, false worship, and irreligious attitudes. It does not represent any specific church in the world today" (Lesson Manual, p17).

Elder Bruce R. McConkie: "The titles church of the devil and great and abominable church are used to identify all churches or organizations of whatever name or nature -- whether political, philosophical, educational, economic, social, fraternal, civic, or religious -- which are designed to take men on a course that leads away from God and his laws and thus from salvation in the kingdom of God.... Any church or organization of any kind whatever which satisfies the innate religious longings of man and keeps him from coming to the saving truths of Christ and his gospel is therefore not of God." (Mormon Doctrine, pp137-38).

who is the founder of the great and abominable church?
Joseph Smith said, "In relation to the kingdom of God, the devil always sets up his kingdom at the very same time in opposition to God" (HC, 6:365).
The “devil” is the founder of the great and abominable church (v6).

Brother Beardall has been teaching gospel doctrine for quite some time and his web site is at the following link:
http://beardall2000.com/gospdoct.shtml  I like to go and study the lessons from there for some extra information he has gathered.

[Zelph]

Thinking on this Darwin was born and lived at the same time as Joseph Smith.  Could it be that the idea's that came from Darwin could this also be part of the Great and abominable church?

[TheMark]

Thinking on this Darwin was born and lived at the same time as Joseph Smith.   Could it be that the idea's that came from Darwin could this also be part of the Great and abominable church?

No, because Darwin was right.

[Admin]

Darwin was right about... what?

[TheMark]

Darwin was right about... what?

He was right about natural selection.  Evolution is a fact, at least on the micro level.  The concept that life originated randomly out of nothing is not a fact, it's an unverified theory.

They teach Darwinism in byu biology classes.  Those saints who don't believe it are keeping themselves in the dark and really should educate themselves.

Here's an essay on the subject by David Bailey, an lds scientist: http://www.tungate.com/lds_scientist.htm

And here's a quote from that article:

It is important to note that not one of the numerous lds scientists at byu currently espouses the creationist viewpoint, according to a recent surveys of the faculty.  Thus those Mormons who insist on a literal reading of Genesis not only place themselves outside the mainstream of worldly scientific thought, but they also place themselves outside the mainstream of lds scientific thought as well.

[isaiah53]

No, because Darwin was right. 

Absolutely.   Darwin himself was a seminary grad.   Meaning he wanted to be a priest and theologian, and in fact really considered himself to be.   He was not atheist, and was a strong believer in Christ.   With that said Darwin never infers that there is no God, nor that he did not create the heavens and earth.   His ideas really challenged many of the protestant beliefs  regarding God's power especially Calvinism.  He felt that God set the world in motion and that there are laws which govern the earth and all of its creatures, and these laws of nature evolved species.  I think most lds would agree with his ideas of God and law.

Here is a great radio show that explores Darwin and religion it is an eye opener into his religious ideas.
hxxp: speakingoffaith. publicradio. org/programs/2009/darwin/

[tragula]

Wow!  What a great example of how easy it is to get off the subject!

When I read Nephi's description of the great and abominable church in the Book of Mormon, it sure sounds to me an awful lot like a description of the Catholic Church.  Hence, I tend to agree with Bruce R. McConkie's original interpretation as expressed in the first edition of Mormon Doctrine.  Take the phrase "mother of harlots" or "mother of whores."  This seems to be referring to a particular organization that spawned other similar organizations.  Which organization is that if it is not the Catholic Church, which gave birth to the many Protestant churches?

As for the theory of evolution, I think the following scriptures apply:

  "O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish."  (2 Ne. 9:28)

We have essentially two accounts of the creation given to us in the scriptures, the Mosaic and the Abrahamic accounts, and both are very clear that Adam was "the first flesh upon the earth"  (Moses 3:7)  Those who don't believe those very plain words "hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves."

  "O Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm."  (2 Ne. 4:34)

He who believes in the theory of evolution "putteth his trust in man" and in the doctrines and philosophies of men, which the Lord equates with putting their trust in the arm of flesh instead of in His word.

  "Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost."  (2 Ne. 28:31)

Was the theory of evolution "given by the power of the Holy Ghost"?  I seriously doubt it.  I tend to judge things by their fruits.  What are the fruits of the theory of evolution?  It has given atheists all the excuse they need not to believe in a Creator.  I'm sorry, but based on its fruits, I am forced to conclude that the theory of evolution was inspired by Satan.  What was "given by the power of the Holy Ghost"?  The Book of Moses and the Book of Abraham.

  "The weak things of the world shall come forth and break down the mighty and strong ones, that man should not counsel his fellow man, neither trust in the arm of flesh—"  (D&C 1:19)

And what have the Brethren said?  In 1909, the First Presidency issued a statement in which they said that we are "duty bound" to consider Adam and Eve to be our "primal parents."  What does the word "primal" mean?  Look it up in the dictionary.  It comes from the same Latin root as the Spanish word, "primero," which means "first," and the English word "primary."

Then read Lehi's dream.  What does the iron rod represent?  The word of God.  Those who believe in the theory of evolution are like those in Lehi's dream who let go of the iron rod and begin to wander in the mists of darkness, and the theory of evolution is the greatest fraud that Satan ever perpetrated on mankind.  Even Darwin, himself, prior to his death, concluded that survival of the fittest was not supported by the evidence, and returned to the old, discarded theory of the inheritance of acquired traits.  There is a whole other side in the debate over evolution that Satan has successfully kept from getting a fair hearing.