October's View: Cough Medicine

[October]

You are speaking about breaking the Word of Wisdom and the Spirit of the Word of Wisdom.  Let's make that clear because breaking those five things prohibited in Doctrine and Covenants 89 is what will you keep you out of the Temple and not a glass of milk. 

i'd say that's a bit inaccurate.
the d&c does not prohibbit anything. 

1 A Word of Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion
2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days
3 Given for a principle with promise, adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints.
4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation

it appears rather clear that it is an advisory caution.  also, the church did not begin requiring that these principles be followed in order to enter the temple until 1902. 

the church also does not require that one abstain from excessive meat consumption in order to enter the temple; in fact, the church doesn't even teach it as a principle anymore - their justification for this was that refridgeration made it possible to keep meat longer and made it safer to eat, which would lead one to believe that the church does, in fact, see it as a principle of keeping the body safe, and not because the things in the d&c themselves were forbidden. .

what i am most confused by here is your response, since just a few posts earlier you justified your own use of alcohol for medicinal purposes. . . and then when superfly pointed out that it is the principle which is important (a claim which the d&c it's self confirms), you responded that it is the thing it's self, and not the principle which "will keep you out of the temple". . . .  so, will your use of cough syrup with alcohol interfere with your temple worthiness? you've just condemmed your own principles in using medicines containing alcohol. .  does it not appear hypocritical?

[Admin]

October, I believe you stated you are not a Member? We have a section for those who are not Members / Anti-Mormons and want to share their take on it - you are already familiar with the Board "I'm not a Mormon". This enables those looking for specific content to know what they will find, thanks for understanding.

[Happy_LDS]

I will answer some points for the solely purpose to clarify doctrine since I do not want a member to get confused in the web of lies that Anti-Mormons try to spread. I do not expect an answer from a non-member since they are not supposed to post here.

it appears rather clear that it is an advisory caution.  also, the church did not begin requiring that these principles be followed in order to enter the temple until 1902. 

Correction, it is clear it was an advisory caution, no longer is for members of the Church. The parts that you put in bold in Doctrine and Covenants are correct, in the beginning was not required as a "commandment" (otherwise most of the Saints would have been under condemnation). Later on, the Church through revelation made it commandment upon the Saints. So yes, it IS a commandment a the present time. Please do not try to change it around.

the church also does not require that one abstain from excessive meat consumption in order to enter the temple; in fact, the church doesn't even teach it as a principle anymore - their justification for this was that refridgeration made it possible to keep meat longer and made it safer to eat, which would lead one to believe that the church does, in fact, see it as a principle of keeping the body safe, and not because the things in the d&c themselves were forbidden. .

*sigh* More rumors. Where did you read about the refrigeration stuff? Is it "doctrinal"? 

what i am most confused by here is your response, since just a few posts earlier you justified your own use of alcohol for medicinal purposes. . . and then when superfly pointed out that it is the principle which is important (a claim which the d&c it's self confirms), you responded that it is the thing it's self, and not the principle which "will keep you out of the temple". . . .  so, will your use of cough syrup with alcohol interfere with your temple worthiness? you've just condemmed your own principles in using medicines containing alcohol. .  does it not appear hypocritical?

Anti-Mormon and self-righteous too? Deadly combination. Where do I say I use alcohol for medical purposes? Read properly. 

[October]

October, I believe you stated you are not a Member? We have a section for those who are not Members / Anti-Mormons and want to share their take on it - you are already familiar with the Board "I'm not a Mormon".   This enables those looking for specific content to know what they will find, thanks for understanding. 

in the 50s, the united states had a 'section' for blacks, where they could talk amongst themselves without disrupting the white peace.   in the 1700s, women were not permitted to have their voices heard in government elections.  

when i, as a non-member, attend a sacrament meeting, am i required to sit in the back of the chapel and not question the things being taught? certainly not.   i am encouraged to sit amongst members, inquire, learn, and discuss. 

while this is a private forum, and you have every right to moderate it as you please, i would ask that you not judge my position nor censor my contributions to doctrinal threads, as i have a great deal of factual and legitimate information to offer members and non-members alike.   if you, at any time, come of the opinion that my posts are in a negative light against the church, or that i am making false statements, then please discuss that matter with me directly and promptly. 

otherwise, with all due respect, i would ask that you not treat me with the same disgust and hate that many people have shown your church.  .  .   to do so would be a very sickening and hideous, presumptive action. 

[October]

I will answer some points for the solely purpose to clarify doctrine since I do not want a member to get confused in the web of lies that Anti-Mormons try to spread.  I do not expect an answer from a non-member since they are not supposed to post here.

i, by no means, ever lie in regard to doctrine or history; if i am ever misinformed, i welcome correction and expansion in my well of knowledge.  i will have great appreciation if you do not make such brash, inappropriate, and deceitful remarks toward me without justification again.  i was born and raised in the church, i was taught lds approved curriculum for over four years in a private school, and i have spent more years of my life researching lds doctrine than many adult members have spent attending church.  i would very respectfully ask that you take a bit more consideration before you publicly judge me again. 

Correction, it is clear it was an advisory caution, no longer is for members of the Church.  The parts that you put in bold in Doctrine and Covenants are correct, in the beginning was not required as a "commandment" (otherwise most of the Saints would have been under condemnation).  Later on, the Church through revelation made it commandment upon the Saints.  So yes, it IS a commandment a the present time.  Please do not try to change it around.

i did not state that it was not currently regarded as a commandment in the church.  i stated that the D&C very clearly states the contrary (in response to your statement 'prohibited in Doctrine and Covenants 89' - i was pointing out that this statement was inacurrate, as the D&C did not identify anything as being prohibited).  young entered the word of wisdom as a commandment in september of 1851 after a congregational vote to do so.  the church officially required this commandment be followed in 1902 in order to enter the temple. 

*sigh* More rumors.  Where did you read about the refrigeration stuff? Is it "doctrinal"?  ::)

no, the bit about refrigeration is not doctrinal, but the only bit of information to be found regarding why the church no longer urges members to refrain from daily meat consumption. 
the D&C 89 very plainly states that meat should only be consumed during cold seasons and times of famine.  during the same address in which hyrum specifies that 'hot drinks' covers coffee and tea, he also states that animal life is sacred to god, and should never be taken unless necessary - he advised that god allows for animals to be killed for consumption in times of famine because those animals would die due to the lack of food anyway, and should therefore not be wasted.

Let them be sparing of the life of animals, it is pleasing saith the Lord that flesh be used only in times of winter, or of famine.  And why to be used in time of famine? Because all domesticated animals would naturally die, and might as well be made use of by man as not.

he never mentions that the minimal use of animals is due to health concerns.  however, in 1902, when it became a requirement to follow the word of wisdom in order to gain temple recommends, the church suddenly dropped emphasis on the consumption of meat.  the only details regarding this change which can be found are located in a student study manual for the D&C from the mid 1900s, which states:

When the Word of Wisdom was revealed, methods for preserving meat were still primitive.  Spoiled meat can be fatal if eaten, but the chance of spoilage is not as great in winter as in summer.  Modern methods of refrigeration now make it possible for meat to be frozen and thereby preserved for later use in any season. 

so, no, this was not as you ask, a doctrinal change - i simply used this reference as it is the only known reason ever to be given regarding why members are not questioned about their meat consumption but are regarding their drug, caffeine, and alcohol consumption.  i am not bashing the word of wisdom.  i am pointing out that the only reason that we have been able to find regarding a leniency for any one item in the word of wisdom is health related - and that no evidence for things being forbidden simply because of what they are has ever been found. 

Anti-Mormon and self-righteous too? Deadly combination.  Where do I say I use alcohol for medical purposes? Read properly.   ::)

i assumed that when you wrote

How much is too much? I don't know.  One takes medication to feel better not to get drunk.  The amount isn't a big deal to me.

that you were implying that the principle did not apply when you are taking medication, as you say that the 'amount is not a big deal' for you when you are doing something to feel better, and not to get drunk.  i was pointing out that your response to superfly seemed hypocritical in that regard.  if i am misinterpreting, please enlighten me.

my posts in this thread are being made in order to clarify what i believed was a contradiction in your logic, not in the doctrine - please take it in no light other than that.  this is absolutely not an attack on the word of wisdom, which i find to be of extremely great scientific benefit to all men. 

[October]

now, as for my own response to the original post, from a doctrinal standpoint.   .  

my understanding of smith's principles and approach, in combination with a scientific perspective and the logic setforth in other commandments given by the god of abraham, my thought process is this:

all things are to be used in moderation and harmony.    some things, which god has placed on this earth to be used by man, are potent.    being imperfect, man has shown a tendency to take on addictions to many things.    god has identified those substances to which men are most susceptible to addiction, and which are most harmful.   

when bestowing the word of wisdom upon smith for revelation to his counsel, he chose those things which he saw as most dangerous to the health of man in the event of over indulgence.   

medications during smith's time contained just as much, if not more, alcohol than they do today.    but in the revelation of the word of wisdom, smith specifies strong drinks, hot drinks, tobacco, and meat as those things which should be restricted.    when speaking of tobacco, he specifies that it should be used for bruises and for treating ill cattle.    for hot drinks, there is no exception made.    for meat, the exceptions are winter and famine.    for strong drinks, the exception is sacramental wine.    however - when smith states 'strong drink', are we to assume that this should include all forms of alcohol? or should we see this as meaning alcohol which is being consumed in the form of a beverage? to this day, the church has not offered an official position on caffeine - there is still no official position as to whether coke or pepsi would be covered by the D&C. . or whether caffinated medications are of worry.    if the church has not received revelation in regard to the component of coffee and tea which is considered harmful, how can we assume what god's will is regarding the alcoholic content of medicine?

however, using the logic that the god of abraham has often put forth, i've gathered that most commandments are meant for the safety of human life and reproduction.    i, therefore, derive that alcohol should not be used causally by any means, but that it would likely be acceptable to god that it be used it when attempting to preserve life (i.   e.   , for cleansing open wounds, or for thinning the blood of someone who is suffering dangerous clotting, or for sterilizing eating utensils), or when used in ceremonial rituals as advised by god (normally used only in sacraments - an act of symbolically cleansing the body with a sterile drink representing the purity of the blood of god).   

my conclusion:

when you couple the word of wisdom with the teachings of the bible and book of mormon, you find that christ and other men of god often use wine as a matter of cleansing - both physical and spiritual.    drunkenness, however, was always looked down upon.   

i find that, when using the logic found in all of the other documents considered to be the word of god by the church, god is restricting the behaviour - and not the thing.    my assumption is that alcohol used in medication with the purpose of healing and cleansing is acceptable.    however, alcohol being used for pain relief is not typically necessary for the recovery process, and can lead to abuse.    in fact, using medications such as cough syrup with alcohol can urge you to spend less time in bed, return to work, and exhaust yourself before your body has healed completely.    this also, often, leads to consuming more cough syrup in order to put off the symptoms, and can result in habitual use of these products any time you begin to feel ill.    my perspective is that the use of alcohol in cough syrup is unnecessary for the healing and cleansing process, and therefore should not be seen as a commonly acceptable form of treatment.    this is, of course, a personal conclusion.   .   .    but if i believed that the word of wisdom were essential for my dedication to god's will, i would not use cough syrup containing alcohol (nor any other cough syrup which did anything more than aide decongestion).  

[Admin]

Thread moved to proper location as has already been stated. Continue to rant all you like in this section.

update: This user, like many other Anti-Mormons, cannot help but decide how the Community has to be run. Additionally they try consistently to make cheap shots about the person rather than stick with content. User banned.