Pure Speculation or Testimony from the Spirit?

[JaGa]

I find it rather sad that we today view the saying of the past prophets as pure speculation.  :-[ When the Saints of their time heard their prophet speak I know they didn't say:"Oh well, that's his opinion, it's just pure speculation" What would of happen to the children of Israel if they viewed the saying of Moses as such?

So why is that we can look back at what those Saints felt was testimony from God on certain doctrines; and in our hearts say:"Oh well, that was then, and we don't believe that any more, plus it was probably pure speculation"? What gives us the right to judge the testimonies of others? When we say things like that, not only are we undermining the faith of those who went before, but we are also undermining our own faith. 

Those who speak such folly are also those who cry 'Follow the prophet', yet they themselves deny the power of the testimony which allows us to do so.  How about we obey the commandments, and worry about purifying ourselves.  Which will in time make us worthy of the Spirit and the testimony of Jesus Christ.  Then maybe we will view things spiritually and not carnally. 

[JoePublic]

Name: Brother Fort

Comments: Possibly because some of it IS their opinion and they weren't speaking as a prophet but just as any of us at the time.

[JaGa]

Possibly because some of it IS their opinion and they weren't speaking as a prophet but just as any of us at the time.

Sorry, I should of clarified that I was talking about things mentioned in General Conference.  What about Brigham Young's Adam-God doctrine? Many say it was his own opinion, but he clearly states numerously that it was revelation.  There are also many other doctrines spoken of in general conference that many buck at, and say: "Well it wasn't sustained by a vote".  Well, did we not all sustain the prophet, do we not all claim testimony of the Doctrine and Covenants, in which it states that when ever a prophet is speaking under the direction of the Spirit, that we should take it as though God had spoken it Himself. 

[Suzie_Su]

There are also many other doctrines spoken of in general conference that many buck at, and say: "Well it wasn't sustained by a vote".  Well, did we not all sustain the prophet, do we not all claim testimony of the Doctrine and Covenants, in which it states that when ever a prophet is speaking under the direction of the Spirit, that we should take it as though God had spoken it Himself. 

Are you saying prophets are infallible? They certainly aren't you know what am I saying? And thats why we have to sustain whatever revelations they may want to present.

[JaGa]

Quote: from Suzie_Su

Are you saying prophets are infallible? They certainly aren't you know what am I saying? And thats why we have to sustain whatever revelations they may want to present.

No I'm am not saying prophets are infallible.  But they are infallible when speaking by the power of the Holy Ghost.  Answer me this: If plural marriage was introduced once again by a future prophet, and the people vetoed it, would that make it not of God? Or what if there were another prophet that said Michael is God, and we should know Him as such? Does the Church need to vote on such a revelation, even though Pres.  Young said the same? Does not the scriptures teach us that every word shall be established by the testimony of two?

Matt.  18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established

[JoePublic]

Name: Jane

Comments: If we're supposed to just believe then why even bother to pray about it or develop a testimony?

[JaGa]

Name: Jane

Comments: If we're supposed to just believe then why even bother to pray about it or develop a testimony?

That's the thing; many just believe without actually taking the time to pray about it and develop a testimony. I am not saying to just believe. No; what I'm saying is to consider, than to pray; and then you will know for yourself. Many don't even try to consider the things that many of the prophets of old have stated just because it clashes with their traditions of right and wrong; and goes against what the world has taught them.

Take for instance the doctrine 'Blood Atonement', wherein one must shed his own blood to atone for sins committed, that will not be atone for by Christ's own atonement. This is doctrine. This is truth and light. Think not that you can enter in to the everlasting covenant and continue in sin, crucifying as it were, Jesus a second time. It does not work that way. Yet there are many who think that such a doctrine undermines the atonement of Christ, and goes against natural laws.

If we don't even try to consider the truth in a doctrine, our minds will become clouded by false traditions and our hearts hardened with worldly issues. The Spirit will not be able to penetrate us; and we will find ourselves kicking against the pricks. 

[Happy_LDS]

But they are infallible when speaking by the power of the Holy Ghost.

Hence, it is important to pray before following any kind of revelation and receive our own personal testimony. Also because prophets aren't infallible it is important that the revelation may be presented to the Saints for their sustaining vote. There IS a reason for that procedure.