Homosexuality in the Church

[TheMark]

TheMark.  .  .   and your view on homosexuality in the Church is?

My view is that the church should not get politically involved as it has done in California in the same-sex marriage matter.    But it should get involved in the defense of it's right to perform marriages for only those it chooses to.    The church is a private institution and should have the right to act according to its own conscience.    If that right is ever infringed on, civil disobedience is in order. 

I think anyone who is seriously interested in the topic should read Carol Lynn Pearson's book "Goodbye, I Love You.  "  She also has a more recent book addressing the issue more directly, though I haven't read it.    She had a temple marriage with a Homosexual man and the book is about their relationship. 

There has been a dynamic shift in the way the church has dealt with the issue (I think as a result of testimonies such as Carol Lynn's) from cure-by-marriage to strict abstinence.    The cure-by-marriage method is largely ineffective and has been an abusive burden on the wives of those men. 

I think the strict abstinence doctrine is flawed as well.    Anybody with a sex drive should know of it's impracticality.    Sexual instinct is of the most prime instincts we have, and this is how God ordained it.    I don't think such a major paradigm change as the tolerance of homosexual activity is really a possibility in the church's near future (and possibly not far-distant future for that matter), but I think that is where it needs to go.    If the church did allow their homosexual members to marry civilly and practice their sexuality within the bonds of marriage, then it would keep them from committing the sin of adultery.    I don't think it's fair or right for them to be forced into abstinence for life.    And it simply won't happen.    Either a homosexual can commit the sin of sodomy and adultery or just sodomy. 

Besides all that, I think the doctrine of homosexuality being a sin is about as doctrinally founded as the reasons blacks were denied the priesthood for over a century, and we see what eventually came of that. 

[TheMark]

Furthermore, there is a disproportionately high suicide rate for homosexuals (not specifically within the church) and I don't think the church body's current attitude does much to help this.   Compassion and understanding is key.   Many in the church have caught on, but not enough yet.

[Happy_LDS]

TheMark:

Besides all that, I think the doctrine of homosexuality being a sin is about as doctrinally founded as the reasons blacks were denied the priesthood for over a century, and we see what eventually came of that.

Where do you get this idea from? Homosexually is condemned in the Scriptures.

[TheMark]

Where do you get this idea from? Homosexually is condemned in the Scriptures.

These are the references to homosexuality in the scriptures according to the Topical Guide:  Gen.  19:5; Lev.  18:22; Deut.  23:17; Isa.  3:9; Rom.  1:27; 1 Cor.  6:9; 1 Tim.  1:10; Jude 1:7; 2 Ne.  13:9.   These can be sorted into 4 categories: 1.  The account of Sodom; 2.  Leviticus 3.  Mentions of Sodom; and 4.  The Gospels.

Disregarding my opinion on the story of Sodom mentioned previously, the story is far from explicit in the actual reason for Sodom being destroyed.   The account suggests that the men visiting Lot want Lot to send the visiting angels out so that the men can rape them.   God's vengeance was not because of homosexual acts, it was for disrespect and vile lust.   The sin was an attitude, not an activity.   None of the scriptures that mention this incident in passing do anything to suggest anything different from this analysis.   A man who rapes another man in prison is not a homosexual;  He is a rapist and a predominator.

The laws laid out in Leviticus were specific to the Hebrew covenant and are not applicable now.

The mentions of men "defiling themselves with mankind" in the Gospels are the only scriptures valid in the argument that the scriptures condemn homosexuality.   However, anyone who knows the history of the compilation of the Bible would know that it is an unreliable source for determining true doctrine.   The bible message was selected by an uninspired, politically-bent group of men centuries after the death of the last apostle.   No portion of the New Testament is doctrinal without the support of modern revelation.

And has there been a single revelatory word since the Restoration on the subject of homosexuality?  Is there any official revelation denouncing it?  I challenge anyone to find just one.   The Book of Mormon is silent (minus the one mention of Sodom in Nephi which is a quote of Isaiah and not Nephi's words).   So is the Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price.   As far as I know, Joseph Smith never mentioned it.   In the restored church, there is no Doctrine against Homosexuality.   All we have is the tradition we've borrowed from the apostate Christianity.

[Happy_LDS]

Before I find any quotes, I would like clarification.

In my opinion, same sex attraction is not necessarily a sin but homosexual activity it is.

Are you referring to same saxe attraction or homosexual activity or both?

[TheMark]

Are you referring to same saxe attraction or homosexual activity or both?

I'm referring to both.

[Happy_LDS]

TheMark:

And has there been a single revelatory word since the Restoration on the subject of homosexuality?  Is there any official revelation denouncing it?  I challenge anyone to find just one.

I'm referring to both.

There have been plenty statements about homosexuality as a sin:

"The unholy transgression of homosexuality is either rapidly growing or tolerance is giving it wider publicity. ? The Lord condemns and forbids this practice....'God made me that way,' some say, as they rationalize and excuse themselves...'I can?t help it,' they add. This is blasphemy. Is man not made in the image of God, and does he think God to be 'that way'?" (Elder Kimball)

"Sexual relations are proper only between husband and wife appropriately expressed within the bonds of marriage. Any other sexual contact, including fornication, adultery, and homosexuality and lesbian [sic] behavior, is sinful. Those who persist in such practices or who influence others to do so are subject to Church discipline...."

        "Such thoughts and feelings, regardless of their causes, can and should be overcome and sinful behavior should be eliminated. This can be achieved through faith in God, sincere repentance, and persistent effort." (For the Strength of the Young, First Presidency Pamphlet)

To name a few...

[TheMark]

I mean to say, is there any reference to homosexuality that states that it is an actual revelation from God.

In comparison, there were many opinions stated by earlier church leaders that explain why the doctrine prohibiting blacks from the priesthood is in place .  I don't think any of those leaders ever suspected that there would be a later revelation officially giving blacks the previously denied priesthood.  For over a century, the opinion that blacks should not have the priesthood and opinions supporting it were taught similar to how the doctrine of homosexual acts being a sin is taught today.  The pamphlets put forth by the church, I don't think, are "official" revelations.  If there is a quote supporting that fact, I'm willing to hear it.  There's a big difference between "inspiration" and "revelation."