"I know" rather than "I believe"

[Clifton]

Alma teaches us about faith unto knowledge.  If we have faith and believe, that faith can become knowledge in that particular thing.  In Alma 32:26-43, we learn a lot about faith.

. . . experiment upon my words, and exercise a particle of faith, yea, even if ye can no more than desire to believe, let this desire work in you. . .  Alma 32:27

And as that faith grows through Alma's experiment. . .

And now, behold, is your knowledge perfect? Yea, your knowledge is perfect in that thing, and your faith is dormant; and this because you know. . .   Alma 32:34 (emphasis added)

I believe we can know things through faith and that by having faith, God can reveal truths to us, Holy Ghost to spirit, to the extent that we really know.  At least as much as I know that I exist and that I know McDonald's sells french fries; both of which could be false but I really hope not.

Clif

[tubaloth]

Clifton made the same point I wanted to. 

What you know is what you have felt!  You pray about Joseph Smith, and the spirit lets you know that Joseph Smith actually saw Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father.   The spirit tells you that the book of mormon is true, That this Church is Christ's Church.   

These thing we know, because have felt the spirit! There is still faith in that we don't know all things!  But we know what we are doing.   
Lectures on Faith says it best

Let us here observe that a religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation.  For from the first existence of man, the faith necessary unto the enjoyment of life and salvation never could be obtained without the sacrifice of all earthly things.  It is through this sacrifice, and this only, that God has ordained that men should enjoy eternal life.  And it is through the medium of the sacrifice of all earthly things that men do actually know that they are doing the things that are well pleasing in the sight of God.  When a man has offered in sacrifice all that he has for the truth's sake, not even withholding his life, and believing before God that he has been called to make this sacrifice because he seeks to do His will, he does know, most assuredly, that God does and will accept his sacrifice and offering and that he has not sought nor will he seek His face in vain.  Under these circumstances, then, he can obtain the faith necessary for him to lay hold on eternal life.

Meaning there comes a time in your life you better know you are on the right path to Heaven, more then just believe you are going to get close to Heaven. 

[Happy_LDS]

These thing we know, because have felt the spirit!

Feeling the Spirit to me is not "knowing". You still going through Faith unless you have your Call and Election Made Sure then yes, you know.

[tubaloth]

Thats fine if thats how you view it!  But like Alma teaches

"Yea, your knowledge is perfect in that thing, and your faith is dormant; and this because you know"

So when people get up to bare there Testimony on sunday!  They Do know!  They know what the spirit has told them!  They know this more then just believe the spirit told them this, its more then just believing. 

As we grow in our Knowledge (not just belief)  and obey that knoweldge then the spirit doesn't help us anymore and that is when we get the second comforter, (meaning Jesus Christ).   

[TheMark]

The difference between knowledge and belief is in the level of corresponding doubt.   It's a subjective statement and does not correlate to objective truth.   I think a lot of people are dishonest about how much doubt they actually have.   Or else, people's rationalities are too easily swayed by their passions which causes them to overcome doubt that should naturally be there.

It is so often viewed by church practitioners that the more convinced one is of gospel truth the better, whereas I, from my viewpoint, find a person who contains himself to only stating belief in the gospel to be one with greater moral integrity and greater capability in bridling her passions.   Salvation is not a result of how incredibly (the etymology of "incredible" is "not credible" by the way) convinced one is of the Gospel, it's in how well they live it.

I find this to be a deviancy in the culture that is in need of correction.   I believe it's a result of an inflated sense of evangelism and a want for conformity.

Furthermore, I don't think it does good for the church's image.   An outsider seeing the evidence that is sited of the Saint's "knowledge" of their beliefs will see the incongruity of evidence to conviction.   It makes us look like radicals.   Of course, we shouldn't change ourselves for the sake of image.   We should change for the sake of integrity.

[Alskann]

A person can be given confirmation by the Spirit without necessarily having their calling and election made sure.  Granted many people seem to profess knowledge based on belief, but there are things I know are true because the Spirit has bourne powerful witness so that I could not deny it.  There are other things I believe to be true but have not yet reached the point of knowledge.  I do not believe I am unique in these experiences.

[quaper]

I think when they say they know they mean they have an extreme testimony. They are almost positive he exists. When i say that i mean all they need is to see him. Some people on the other hand just perfer that word instead of believe. Me personaly I know that the gosple is true, but by know i mean i believe as much as I can at this point in time.

[tragula]

In Alma 32, we read that faith is not to have a "perfect" knowledge.  The implication is that there is such a thing as "imperfect" knowledge.  According to the scriptures, seeing is perfect knowledge.  Thus, anything that isn't seeing with our own eyes might be considered "imperfect" knowledge.  We often say such things as "I knew you were going to say that."  That is considered an acceptable usage of the word "know," even though it is obviously not "perfect" knowledge.  So, when people bear their testimonies saying, "I know that the Church is true," I also accept that as an acceptable usage of the word "know," even though I do not usually consider it to be "perfect" knowledge.

"Imperfect" knowledge I would associate with faith, which Hebrews 11 defines as "assurance of things hoped for, evidence of things not seen."  If we have "evidence" of something that we have not seen, that is essentially faith, which could also be called "imperfect" knowledge.  Still, faith is more than just belief because, as the Prophet Joseph Smith taught, in the Lectures on Faith, faith is the principle of action in all intelligent beings.  Thus, faith is such a strong belief that it moves us to action or obedience to the commandments, whereas a mere belief does not do that.